Look, I found an idiot!

http://josephcrawford.com/2007/11/14/phpwomen-a-site-for-women-programming-php/

And my not so nice response

Here's a question for you - where do you see "segregate" - where do you see "men you can't come and be a part of our group" or "no men allowed" - in fact if I remember right the site has a little slogan "We do not wish to exclude men - rather to encourage women. They are not mutually exclusive after all" - there are men in the forums and men sitting in the chat room...even men in the mentoring progam.

So we can't have a site to encourage women who are programmers because that's sexist? I think you need to get off your idiot box now...

Let's see if the comment actually shows up.

Well thought out arguments I will take... but I can't abide an idiot (especially one who obviously didn't even read the site)

Edit: Look it's up already...but he doesn't get the point at all.... I could pull out the clue bat but I already braved one flamewar today

Comments

Joseph Crawford

Woah now i'm an idiot ;)

Maybe you need to read my comments in response to yours. I did read your site, i saw that yes guys are allowed, my question was why phpwomen.org why not phpusers.org

why must people create separate communities was my point. not once did i say your site should cease to exist.

wow a bit defensive eh.

2007-11-14 12:06 pm

auroraeosrose

Very defensive.

Let's start with this - why not phpusers.org? Because women are different then men. No matter how many ways you slice it, we are different biologically, socialized differently, and generally have different ways of thinking. Is one better than the other? No - but it is a difference that is not always addressed in "user groups". There are php community sites and our members mostly belong to another site "in addition" - the point of phpwomen, the reason for it's existence, is to fill the gap between what many women expect in a social group, and the environment male oriented social groups provide.

Do you know of any php site that also discusses child care issues and knitting? Now I'm sure there are guys that do have to deal with "I have to put my kids in daycare to work" or "I have to put my career on hold or work from home" but they are far less common then women. And I'm sure there are guys who are into knitting as a hobby. However, haven't seen many in the php or even geek community in general, have you?

Have you seen a group that helps support the "incidents" that often occur when that female enters the chatroom. Even xkcd knows what I'm talking about. You can say "oh they don't exist" and I wish that was true, but the bottom line is that for every 30 or 40 great, normal, civilized males in the computer community there is the jackass. I have phpwomen irc logs to prove it. That is the purpose of the group. Because without strong support, people (mainly women) will just walk away from the industry when they don't get the "he's the one idiot, they're not all like that" talk. If you really think the number of women in computing is a natural phenomena and not primarily a product of environment, exposure, and socialization - then my idiot comment stands.

2007-11-14 12:25 pm

Carla Schroder

It's amazing how a simple, tiny word like "women" can cause so much foaming and upset. So what if we want our own little clubhouses? We're entitled. I'd be tempted to exclude all men just for the fun of watching them get heart attacks and strokes about it.

With women in FOSS making up maybe 2%, why on earth should anyone care if we want our own groups to hang out in? What does that have to do with anyone else? If you're feeling all rejected, maybe you need to look in the mirror and figure out why we don't want to hang out with you.

2007-11-14 12:43 pm

Davey Shafik

Carla++

- Davey

P.S.
You wanna hang out with me though, right? I wasn't included in your little rant... right... right?!

2007-11-14 1:01 pm

Tetraboy

The reason PHP Women exists is the same reason YoungCoders, NYPHP, and AtlantaPHP exist. They are all groups formed to bring together people with something in common. Whether it's your gender, how old your are, or where you live, people just like to interact with other people who share a common connection.

2007-11-14 1:13 pm

Brenda

yup, Davey is kewl. Poker and knitting tonight, at that secret location.. see ya there.

2007-11-14 1:15 pm

Joseph Crawford

I see the reasoning and I never said it was wrong. I saw the site and it has tripped me off on more in society than your site.

2007-11-14 2:24 pm

Brenda

/me gets some popcorn.

2007-11-14 4:45 pm

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